Bunnydrums
Interviewer: Shaun Hamilton
Grave Concerns Magazine
10-26-2003
(1). Hello! How is everyone in the group and how is everything over in Philadelphia?
Everyone is doing well!!! Philly’s good…a unique and special place. Joe Ankenbrand (Drums) and Frank Marr (Guitar) are still in Philly, Greg Davis (bass) moved to the west coast shortly after the band dissolved and I moved to New York a few years later. I still get to Philly at least once or twice a year to check in and catch up.
(2). One major question hangs in the air with the reissue of "Simulacra/PKD": Is the group back together for good, doing a one-off, or is the group still broken up?
No, Bunnydrums is not back together (at least not in this dimension), although we have stayed in touch over the years and seem to have repaired any damage that might have occurred a long the way. As a band, we shared a multitude of experiences together and this re-issue is another one of them. There’s no doubt in my mind that if Bunnydrums did get back together again, it would be an awesome and sonic experience– but this CD is not about that…it’s about the band that recorded this material 20 years ago. PKD Simulacra is really a document of another place in time.
(3). Give us a little bit of detail as to the beginning and end of the group, and the reason to have gotten back together after all this time (if you are truly back together).
The origins of Bunnydrums go back to around 1978. Frank, Greg and I were in a band together called the Boneheads, which also included Tim Bowen on guitar and Bill Schafer on drums. The Boneheads played a garage/surf punk hybrid and shared the stage with Nico, Madness, Wreckless Eric, the Lurkers, B-52’s, Richard Hell and The Voidoids, Bloodless Pharaohs (featuring Brian Setzer), Mission of Burma, The Feelies, Necessaries with Chris Spedding. Not to mention great Philly bands like the Sic Kidz, King of Siam, Stick Men, Crash Course in Science, Warm Jets and the Autistics. Joe played drums for the Autistics, which also included Bobby Startup (legendary Philly DJ) on vocals and Bruce Glider on guitar. They we’re the premier Philly punk band at the time. They also had the best band buttons! We played quite a few shows with the Autistics and were fans of each other. The Boneheads had a show with Nico and our drummer couldn’t make it for one reason or another, so Joe sat in and it rocked. Our show with Nico was a real education. It took her a little while to warm up to us, but as soon as we gained her trust…you have no idea. We had a great time; it was a great rock and roll moment.
She kept saying to know one in Particular “Both kinds of music are good” and “It’s all good” almost trying to convince herself (I guess she saw our sound check!). This was her mantra all evening. We spent around 10 hours with her…just hanging out back stage…awesome evening. We had to play two sets in a row before she was ready to perform. I remember the crowd became very silent when she finally took the stage. The place was packed and you could feel the body heat coming off of the crowd. When she started to play, the place slipped into a trance. It was one of the best performances I had ever seen, an arabesque assault of voice and pump organ. She looked like nothing you’ve ever seen. She was up there all alone sitting behind the organ (which looked like some strange sewing machine) with her purse sitting on the floor next to her. Her movements are best described as organic - she looked possessed. When she finally finished the audience seemed to take a few seconds to digest what they had just experienced and then exploded. They were still clapping when Nico entered the dressing room. I looked at her and said “both kinds of music are good” and with a smile she repeated the line back to me, “Both kinds of music are good”. That was the beginning of Bunnydrums.
Over the next seven years Bunnydrums were together almost everyday. We started out occupying three blown out townhouses on Shamokin Street. A forgotten block behind the free library in center city Philadelphia, we literally had our own street. We were there for a couple of years. From there we all moved to a warehouse in North Philly, that we dubbed “Funk Dungeon”. We occupied three of the four floors, which were 4,000 sq. feet apiece…a huge space. We did everything there; it became a real community and provided a lot of people with an arena in which to experiment. We rehearsed and lived there for the next five years. It was an exciting and creative time. Needless to say, we spent a lot of time together. After a couple of tours, this will put any band to the test, Joe decided he had enough. That was the end of 1984. We were all tired and loosing our grip a little. Greg, Frank and I continued for another couple of years, trying to keep it alive. We brought on Frank “Blank” Moriarity from the Informed Sources (an early entry in the Philly hardcore scene) providing a third guitar and a fresh out look and Bobby Williams on drums, who would jump ship to tour with the Executive Slacks, another great Philly band. This version of Bunnydrums lasted a little over a year. When Bobby left, we replaced him with Richie”Wrench”Hutchenson of Ruin and later Live Skull. In the end, it was never really the same with out Joe. Frank Blank was a great addition, but it wasn’t enough to keep us going. We played a few more gigs and called it quits after a New Years Eve show at the Kennel Club in Philly. That was 1986. We played a couple of more times after that, a benefit for Lee Paris, our first manager, DJ and friend, then again at a WXPEN benefit, where we shared the bill with Schooly D. That was the end of Bunnydrums.
(4). Where did the Bunnydrums name come from? With the Phillip K. Dick influence, I’m guessing it’s from one of his novels (I’ve read tons of his books but can’t remember which one I’ve heard the word “bunnydrums” from).
The name Bunnydrums was a result of keeping a chalkboard in our rehearsal space on which we kept a list of on going name possibilities. We would make composites of different words and Bunnydrums was one of them. This was before the “energizer bunny”, so there wasn’t that association. Most bands at the time had dark and serious overtones to their names. I think Bunnydrums was a response to that in a way and had no other meaning, outside of being the name of a band. When we were booked to open for Pere Ubu, we needed a name, Bunnydrums was chosen by default, and it stuck. People seem to love it or hate it.
(5). Is the CD acronym “PKD” named in honor of Philip K. Dick, by the way?
Absolutely, our first EP Feathers Web was dedicated to the memory of Philip K. Dick. We received news of his death while recording “Shiver” for that record. In the late 70’s, early 80’s many of his books were out of print. We spent hours in bookstores and flea markets tracking them down. We would pass the books around among ourselves, lend and borrowed with friends. I believe we read them all. We had our own PKD society.
(6). Are these all the original songs as they were recorded, or have there been any kind of innovations added to the mix?
These are all the original songs as they were recorded. There have been no innovations of any kind added to the mixes. Some of the mixes do differ from the original releases though, due to the original 2 track masters being lost. That’s why it took so long to put this CD together. It had to be reconstructed from safety tapes, alternative mixes and in a couple of cases from vinyl. We even had to bake our 2” masters in a convection oven and transfer them to a digital source, before we could re-mix, if needed. It took a while to recreate the catalogue. Another thing – PKD Simulacra was re-mastered for CD, which had an enormous effect on the overall sound quality. I think Phil Nicolo did an amazing job putting it all back together. It was a little bit like Humpty Dumpty.
(7). With the psychedelic nature of many of Bunnydrums’ songs, would it be safe to assume that there is a 60's psychedelic/prog-rock influence, such as Jimi Hendrix or Blackwater Park? Or was it more derived from the post-punk era?
There had to be some 60’s influences in there, whether we were aware of it or not. Jimi Hendrix, I love him, but who doesn’t? I do have to admit I’m not familiar with Blackwater Park, but you’ve got me interested. There was a lot of experimentation and I think the psychedelic nature of our music was a manifestation of that as much as anything else.
(8). I have yet to hear the originals of “Simulacra” and “PKD”, since I’m new to the group and it’s unique sound. Were there any additions or re-doing of the songs, or are thy pretty true to the original recordings from the 80's?
I have to clarify something about Simulacra; it was never really commercially available. People would write me all the time regarding the CD and I would end up just burning them a copy. This went on for years. It was an early version of what eventually became PKD Simulacra. It was still missing pieces to the puzzle, it had some different mixes and a few songs that didn’t make it to the final master (Boundaries, TV Eye, the studio version of Frozen Hands, etc) and hadn’t been re-mastered. It circulated for a few years and would still be the only thing available out there if Dave Heckman of Metropolis Records didn’t release it. As I mentioned in the liner notes of the PKD Simulacra CD, we really did try to remain as true to the original releases as possible, to experience the recordings as they were when first released. With the exception of re-mastering and the transfer of analog to digital, it’s really no different from the original releases. By the time Metropolis Records offered to put it out, it had evolved into PKD Simulacra. Phil Nicolo finished the final master just a few weeks before it was sent off for pressing. The whole process took more than a few years.
9). Give us a little info on your backgrounds in music before forming Bunnydrums, and how you all decided to start working together.
It all goes back to the Boneheads and the Autstics. The punk scene of the late 70’s drew all types of people together and the common link was music. We were lucky; we really were friends and had a real relationship as a band. It was one of the most natural collaborations one could wish for. We just loved playing with each other and we shared a lot of interests together. We all played, lived and hung out together. Our roots really go back to being fans.
(10). What was the general reaction being one of the few American artists to do this kind of sound, especially with it’s popularity being in Britain (mainly Manchester, lovingly referred to as the "Madchester" era at that time)?
Outside of Joy Division, Gang of Four and A Certain Ratio, I think we were pretty unaware of it. I never heard the Happy Mondays or knew of the “Manchester” scene until I saw “24 Hour Party People “, which ironically reminded me of Philadelphia. I do admit to liking Joy Division very much. In fact we saw what was supposed to be their first US date at Hurrahs in New York. It took place a couple of weeks after Ian Curtis died. I think it was still billed as Joy Division and not New Order, but I really don’t remember. They did play Joy Division songs though and it was excellent. I think a lot of times the comparisons to these bands were made because people didn’t know what else to say about us, it was an easy connection mostly due to the fact you could dance to some of it. We had a dense live sound; we used a lot of effects on stage (echoplex, flangers, phase shifters, fuzz boxes…) and didn’t limit ourselves to bass, guitar and drums. You could dance if you wanted or space out and just find a zone. I’m not sure that many people were thinking about the comparisons at the time other then the writers. One thing though, we’ve never been compared to any bands we didn’t like!
(11). What is that exactly on the cover of the "Simulacra/PKD", and how does this tie into the themes of Bunnydrums?
The cover is from the PKD LP. I spent a lot of time drawing and making things when we weren’t playing. We all did. It’s a drawing that was done during the time we recorded PKD and everyone watched it evolve. Greg was the one who suggested we use the drawing for the cover. I think it was its inherent association with the music that made it an appropriate image to use. Greg designed the Win/Little Room and the Feathers Web covers, which both had a sci-fi edge to them. We spent a lot of energy deconstructing everything around us and I think the covers reflect that a bit. The original drawing now hangs at Studio 4, where we recorded our records.
(12). The word “simulacra”, for those out there who do not know, means this: simulacrum >noun (pl. simulacra or simulacrums) 1 an image or representation of someone or something. 2 an unsatisfactory imitation or substitute. -ORIGIN Latin, from simulare 'copy, represent'. What would you say is that image you wanted to represent in the title and in the music originally?
Or perhaps it has something to do with the latter definition?
The word “simulacra” I think works both as a description of the CD and conveys or suggests a feeling consistent with the original record and band. Also, the original release was vinyl and totally analog, the new release is a CD and re-mastered digitally. They look the same, sound the same, but are not the same. I think knowing how this CD came about supports the definition, too. It’s a little like Frankenstein. I imagine re-issues in general fall into this category.
(13). You have toured with some incredible and world renown bands over time, including
Pere Ubu, REM, Bauhaus, Colin Newman, Tuxedomoon, Gang of Four, The Cult, Alan Vega, and Pylon. Which concert would you say is the most memorable of all the concerts you’ve ever played?
That’s a tough one, everybody in the band would probably have a different opinion or memory. We toured Europe with the Executive Slacks in 1984. Some of those dates really stand out in my mind. We traveled with two trucks, one with our equipment and PA and the other with stage lights, followed by a van with both bands, Richard Jordan (Fundamental Records), Chris Boas (manager), Phil Nicolo (sound engineer) plus a couple of our promoters. All total we were traveling with about 14 people. Our first show was in Brussels. We were crammed into this van when we passed this crowd on the street and a huge line of people waiting to get into some theater. Our first thought was something big was going on and what the fuck was it? We thought we were going to be screwed, cause everybody would be at this place and our show would be a bust. As we turned the corner we saw posters plastered everywhere for Bunnydrums and Executive Slacks! As it turned out the crowd was for us…a great way to start the tour. Now that was a memorable night. Of the bands mentioned above, they were all interesting to play with for one reason or another, whether musically or because of personality. One show in particular was with Alan Vega at the 9:30 club in DC. He was the best of both worlds. It was just one of those nights, when everything seemed to go right. Alan Vega was exceptional that evening. It was post Suicide and he was doing this bayou rock thing that was like nothing else going on at the time. He put out a couple of records of this stuff. His band played through little “Pig Nose “ amps that were miked and everything went through the house PA; it was such a cool sound. Bruce Springstein must have listened to this stuff, cause soon after he came out with “Nebraska”, which had a lot of similarities. The truth of the matter is every one of our shows has a story; from being held up at gunpoint by the owner of the bar we played in Detroit to going to a party after our gig in Minneapolis where we saw Husker Du playing in the basement. Again, we were fans…there was always a sense of excitement when we had a show.
(14). Do you have any regrets of having broken up at such a great height? Do you think the group could have gotten into the mainstream or achieved more success if you would have stayed together, or would it have gotten worse?
That’s a hard question to answer…the answer is ambiguous at best. Yes, I have regrets, but I don’t think there was any other choice at the time. I not sure what the other guys think, but I think their feelings would be similar. You have to remember that between the Boneheads and Bunnydrums we were together for eight years. We played music in a very unique scene and made records that had no commercial potential. There seems to be a division in music history from when analog ends and digital begins not to mention MTV. There was no industry support for a band like Bunnydrums (particularly a band out of Philadelphia); it was all DIY back then. I think we had a great run, better than most, with great memories and experiences to back it up. I think we were all a little burnt out by the end and a little disillusioned with the direction of the music scene. It was just time to pull the plug. It’s funny, after we disbanded we were nominated for best new band in some music poll, there’s a little irony for you.
(15). David Goerk’s singing style reminds me of the more manic modes of Ian Curtis (Joy Division), with a bit more tone and range. Would you say that Ian Curtis had any impact on you as a singer?
Did Ian Curtis have any impact on me? I think he an impact on everyone who listened to Joy Division. Did he have an impact on me as a singer? I‘d say probably, but not consciously. We all have our influences and inspirations, I would say the more obvious ones for me ranged from Jim Morrison and Gram Parsons to Elvis Presley and Lux Interior. “Holy Moly” is a pretty good fusion of those influences and attitudes.
(16). What is the basic mood you are in when you are at your best singing?
I think it’s a little bit like sports. You’ve got to find your zone. You need to loose yourself a little, I think that’s the secret to a good performance. Otherwise, I think it can be forced and come across contrived. I was best when I successfully detached myself from everything but the music, shades of Nico.
(17). Tell us a little bit about the general idea of the song "Magazine". I’m guessing it’s about how fashion magazines and such force an image and lifestyle on people.
Exactly, it’s also one of my favorite songs. Frank’s guitar is awesome.
(18). Your first concert was for an art show from what I read, and you have always supported the arts in Pennsylvania. Not to mention there is a high artistic element to the group. Do any of you do any artistic mediums, such as painting or photography, on the side?
Yeah, I went to art school and taught art for years. I still maintain a studio and work for an art gallery in New York. Frank also went to art school and we actually met Greg through an ad we posted for a bass player in the art school where he had friends attending at the time. The concert you are referring to I believe was the show we played at the Philadelphia Art Alliance for Howard Finster, the outsider artist. He joined us on stage and yodeled for a good part of the concert. Now, that was a trip. Howard Finster also did a Talking Heads album cover and is in an early REM video, which was filmed at ”Paradise Garden”, his property in Georgia. Howard passed away a last year, he was 84.
(19). Was the photography and artwork in the "Visuals" section of your site taken by the group?
Yeah, we or friends of the band created most of the photography and artwork…
(20). I also noticed you have a picture with the almighty George Clinton as well (one of my favorite funk artists). How did you bump into him, and what are his thoughts on your sound?
We loved all things Funkadelic/Parliament. We would have huge parties at Funk Dungeon and they were always part of the music mix. We used to really mix it up. The picture is with Phil Nicolo, the person most responsible for taking care of us in the recording studio. Phil and his brother Joe are collectively know as the “Butcher Brothers” and ran Studio 4 Recording . Joe Nicolo started “Ruff House” which had artists like Cypress Hill, Fugees (Joe even did an extended mix of a Fugees song using a sample from Bunnydrums), Criss Cross, Kool Keith, etc. These guys have worked with everyone from Urge Overkill (Saturation) to George Clinton and on and on. Amazing they are. They worked with us when they were just starting out. I think they really liked the experimental side of our music and understood the creative and organic nature of it. They were also great to work with and were really great collaborators in the studio. It was really a rewarding process. In the end, it’s just a picture of two guys we love.
(21). Tell us a bit about the plans for the upcoming CD, if there is one coming up. What are some of the new elements we can expect?
Right now there are no plans for another CD. Although there is enough material that didn’t make it on to PKD Simulacra (due to space and time) for another CD. A few of those songs can be heard on our web site: Boundaries, TV Eye and a re-mix of Too Much Time. If the opportunity ever presented itself to release the rest of the Bunnydrums catalogue, I would do it in an instant.
(22). Will there be more modern sounds such as bass beats or sequencing, or will it be more of the tried and true organic Bunnydrums sound?
If it ever did happen , it would unfold very organically. I don’t think we could do it any other way. But don’t hold your breath.
(23). Are there more plans in store for your other projects, Baba Bazooba and Boneheads? Or is all that energy going into Bunnydrums alone?
Baba is an on going alter ego and has been since Bunnydrums disbanded. “Stinky Satan” a song by Baba Bazooba was part of a sculpture installation at the Basel Art Fair in Switzerland this past summer. Joe has a few side projects going on too. He has just releases a compilation of music projects he has played on over the years. I haven’t heard it yet, but am looking forward to it. The Boneheads have four song EP available, recordings from 1978. The original master of that material was also lost, which is a real shame. I think some of those recordings had they been preserved would of blown some minds. Charlie Harper of the UK Subs once stormed our dressing room to tell us we were is favorite American band!
(24). What would you say the most important lesson you’ve learned over the years is? Before I forget as well, whatever happened to Jordan and Red Records?
What is the most import lesson learned over the years? Keep it honest…time goes by to quickly to do it any other way.
The last I heard from Richard Jordan was around ten years ago. He had started a new label called “Delta”. I’ve tried to contact him, over the years, mostly to let him know about the release, but no luck. He was a misunderstood guy, the Colonel Parker of the Indie scene. Red records had some amazing artists on it, Material, Black Flag, Meat Puppets, Stick Men, McRad, etc. Jordan had a good ear if nothing else. After Red Records, Richard started Fundamental, which had Shockabilly, Executive Slacks and Bunnydrums on it. ,
(25). Is the Funk Dungeon still functional, by wondering?
No, Funk Dungeon is no longer. The building is still there and it is still refereed to by that name, but it is no longer an entity.
(26). Ok, time for some fun and oddly goofy questions for the group, to have a little bit of fun! Whenever you see the movie “Rocky” didn’t you just get the urge to just comically punch him in the head when he was jumping up and down at the Philadelphia City Hall (or whatever that building was)?
I always thought that would be amusing, esp. if it were a cartoonishly large boxing glove.
OK, now I don’t know which “Rocky” sequel it was, but they produced a larger then life statue of Rocky with his hands above his head, wearing boxing gloves. It was placed at the top of the stairs at the Philadelphia Museum of Art, where the famous scene took place. From the Parkway approaching the museum you could see this monstrosity from quite a distance away. Well, the gloves , which were huge, looked like moose antlers. From a distance and it appeared to be a giant statue of Bullwinkle! During the filming of the movie the sculpture was referred to as the Rocky and Bullwinkle statue. It was eventually moved to the Spectrum, a sporting complex in South Philly, where it was taken more seriously!
(27). Ok, you’re huge Phillip K. Dick fans, but there has been one question that has forever divided PKD fans: Do you think Deckard was a replicant? Personally I think not, but I do think that he had something to do with the Outworld colonies mentioned in a lot of the PKD novels.
I don’t know what the other guys think, I should ask them, but I always thought that the movie “Bladerunner” made Deckard come across as a replicant. The scene with the photographs at the piano, where the pictures become animated and particularly in the director’s cut with the unicorn, makes for a strong case that Deckard wasn’t human. His eyes also do that glow thing that Rachael’s do during their first meeting. In the book however, ”Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep”, Deckard comes across very human.
(28). Anything else you’d like to leave us with? Any good jokes or words of wisdom for the ladies and gents out there?
“It’s all good”
(29). Thank you very much for you time, and for the great re-issue! I’m hoping there is new material down the line, its quite interesting stuff! Take care!
My pleasure and thank you! The real thanks for the re-issue go to Phil Nicolo of Studio 4 Recording and Dave Heckman of Metropolis Records. Without these two guys the CD would never have seen the light of day. They both did this out of love for the music and that’s what it was all about in the first place. Thanks! David Goerk 9/27/03
